Nicole Vienneau  00:00

Welcome, everyone, to the Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. My name is Nicole Vienneau. I am your host and I'm also a Board Certified Integrative Nurse Coach coming to you from Tucson, Arizona. And today I'm excited. I always get excited just to speak with my fellow Nurse Coaches and today is another special day for me. 

So I would like to welcome Lindsay Frey. She is a Board Certified Integrative Nurse Coach from Portland, Oregon. She's also a Nurse for over 18 years in so many different facets. She's senior faculty with the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy, and she has a lot of background in Nursing, a lot of different specialties. 

And I'm excited to talk with her about how she's bringing to life Nurse Coaching and holistic modalities, specifically with Nurses in her area of expertise in her community. And so we welcome Lindsay.

Lindsay Frey  01:06

Thank you, Nicole, I'm glad to be here.

Nicole Vienneau  01:08

I'm so glad you're here too. So glad. And I'm excited about this topic today because it is a topic that needs to be discussed. And all of us Nurses are working with other fellow Nurses every day. And we have many opportunities to be able to support and elevate our profession. And so I appreciate what you're doing in your community and, you know, your choice to share what it is you're doing. So we look forward to that. 

Lindsay Frey  01:36

Awesome. 

Nicole Vienneau  01:38

So we'd love to take a trip down history lane, and just find out a little bit about you, about how you discovered Nursing. 

Lindsay Frey  01:46

Yeah, great question. So the short story— and I'll expand on it— is that I loved waitressing and science, so I put them together. But there's more to it than that.

Nicole Vienneau  02:02

Much more than that.

Lindsay Frey  02:03

Much more than that. Yeah. So I'm from a very small town in Minnesota. So my accent still comes through if you can notice it occasionally. But anyway, to the tune of 500 people, so really small. And so a very tight knit farming community. And I was a server at the local cafe and throughout high school, and I absolutely loved it because it was an opportunity to take care of people in like those little moments. 

And food is such a big part of our lives. Right. So it was really kind of a special thing to do during high school. And I enjoyed learning about people's stories and just getting to know them as people I guess. Then I also was loving science, especially biology and chemistry. 

And so I was toying with this idea of do I go to med school? Or do I go into Nursing? Like, you know, what do I do with this? And my aunt who lived in my hometown actually unknowingly steered me to Nursing because she was a Nurse and all of her friends are Nurses. 

And so listening to their stories and really seeing that Nurses are, you know, walking alongside people, and learning about their stories is a big part of the work, that felt like a good fit for me. So I lucked out and just knew right away what I wanted to do in college, so I went to one of the most Nursing centric universities in Minnesota at Winona State University, they had a great program. 

And I remember in that first anatomy and physiology class, I felt at home even though the professor was saying this is a class to weed out all the Nurses. And I'm like, Nursing school humor slash nightmares, right. But it felt like a good fit nonetheless. And I really enjoyed... I knew I was in the right place. So yeah.

Nicole Vienneau  04:10

I'm imagining you as a young girl. As a waitress in your small town, I'm sure you saw some of the same people coming into the cafe. And I just recalled, like I had a flashback to just a couple of weeks ago, my mom and I went to a little local cafe. And the waitress in there was amazing. 

I mean, she was going around to every table like a little butterfly, just sprinkling in her joy and bringing some coffee in and you know, but it was like the... like you say, food has such an impact on our lives. A lot of cultural you know, just, you know, we celebrate bring food, everything is about food. We talk about food. 

And so, thinking of that and how you know sometimes we don't think waitressing is like a job but here it is. Like, we're influencing, because I was a waitress too when I was younger, you know, influencing people's choices, helping them celebrate. There's big moments that happen in that type of role.

Lindsay Frey  05:15

Yeah, I just feel, like you said, you remember when you have a great waitress, like how they make you feel. And that's what I wanted to do going forward. So in whatever capacity it was. 

Nicole Vienneau  05:30

Service, right? 

Lindsay Frey  05:31

Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole Vienneau  05:35

All right. And then you mentioned about science, really loving science, biology and chemistry came in. I know some of our listeners were cringing at the chemistry part.

Lindsay Frey  05:45

I know, when I got to organic chem, I thought, what am I thinking here? But yeah, I had some great high school teachers that made it fun.

Nicole Vienneau  05:58

Yeah, yeah. And then you mentioned, of course, sometimes the culture of Nursing school, and, you know, the excitement and also the nightmares that happen being in Nursing school.

Lindsay Frey  06:11

Yeah, it's a big experience. And, and it can really, I think it can really be hard too. Like, it's where you find your... it's where I felt my passion. But I also feel like, you know, it came with its... at the time, they weren't really talking about self care as much in the program. They were, you know, there were some, but not to the degree that I feel like the programs are these past five years. So it was an interesting kind of time to go through it in general. So yeah.

Nicole Vienneau  06:49

Yeah. So tell us some of the positions or some of the spots you landed in Nursing.

Lindsay Frey  06:56

Yeah. So right out of the gate, I went into med surg Nursing, inpatients, and spent a total of six years in those capacities kind of on and off. I really felt like it was a good place for me to start, I learned a lot of my organizational skills there. And I like a wide range of patients. 

So it gave me the opportunity to look at a variety of different scenarios, I guess, that came through, a lot of different chronic diseases. So that's one place that I started. And then I also went into outpatient dermatology and became more involved with procedures and education around results and like around skin cancer and such and didn't realize there's so much involved with that. 

And so that was really a great learning experience for me as well. But then I realized I wanted to get back into the hospital. So went back into med surg. And that's when it really occurred to me that, you know, this was... we were really having kind of a revolving door of same patients coming back in with same problems, acute exacerbations of whatever they have, you know, a variety of things. 

And I just felt like, there's got to be a different way of helping people than what we're doing. So I started looking into holistic Nursing, and getting a sense of how can I kind of look at this a little bit differently than what we're already doing? 

Nicole Vienneau  08:33

And that brought you to... 

Lindsay Frey  08:35

Yeah, that brought me to looking into going back to grad school. Yes, I was looking...  at the time, I was also doing board certification prep course for holistic Nursing. And it was at a local university that also had a master's in holistic health. And I was kind of doing a full reboot on my whole life, going through divorce and all the things, and thought, well, let's do this, too. 

So I checked it out. And I'm so glad I did. I met one of my best friends, Judy Ratliff, who's also senior faculty here at INCA. We became fast friends in the program. Another Nurse in a program that's not Nursing centric. So it was just a master's in holistic health studies. 

I've never been in kind of a generalist program before. So I thought it was kind of interesting to just explore all the different ways that I could bring in these modalities. But then I found that I was struggling to think how am I going to bring this into Nursing, even inpatient Nursing, which I was in at the time. 

And so I one night was Charge Nurse on a night shift, and I just thought I was gonna Google holistic Nursing and see what pops up. And I've done it like... felt like hundreds of times before. But that night, up popped INCA's website and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I've done this so many other times, like, how did this just show up, you know? 

Anyway, so I was looking into it, and they had, you know, they were talking about learning how to communicate in a way that I was not aware of— Coaching and such. I'd heard of, like, life Coaches and things, but hadn't thought of it within Nursing. 

And that's one of the things that I thought would be huge, especially in an inpatient setting, is how can I communicate differently, that might help kind of plant seeds for folks as they... upon discharge. And help kind of walk alongside them more than I felt like I was that moment. And I also wanted kind of a container to put all these different modalities in that I had been learning about. 

So I thought, well, let's check this out. So I brought it up to Judy. And she's such an adventurous soul. She's like, Yeah, let's do it. So that was fun too, like, Alright, let's go to Miami. And, you know, it was almost wintertime in Minnesota, so we really were excited.

Nicole Vienneau  11:24

Miami, yeah! 

Lindsay Frey  11:27

So yeah, that was great. And, honestly, within the first few hours of being there, I just knew immediately that I was in the right spot, that this was going to be my next step. You know, we were so inspired by hearing other Nurses' stories. 

When we came back six months later for the second part of the series, we did our thesis on how this program was influencing Nurses' practice and personal lives, because it was so... the stories were so amazing. So just renewed sense of love for Nursing. 

And, you know, folks that thought, gosh, you know, I need to get out of Nursing, I've had it, and six months later, they were just so ready to jump back into their careers with renewed passion. And just learning about how this program helped them do that was just fascinating. 

So we ended up publishing in a peer reviewed journal, and that I never thought I'd ever have on my resume. So it's like amazing what Nurse Coaching has done for me.

Nicole Vienneau  12:45

Ah, I love this story. So we've had Judy Ratliff on our podcast, too. So listeners, I'll be sure to link Judy's podcast in here on Lindsay's podcast— to link it in in the show notes. And also, I hope to get a link to your thesis too. So we can put that in and then people can explore that. 

Because what you're noticing and what I've seen and what many of our graduates within the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy have experienced is so true, that we were seeking something else, we were hoping to find some way that we might continue practicing Nursing, because we were ready to leave. 

And then we come across this Integrative Nurse Coach Academy and Nurse Coaching, and we immerse ourselves into this program and learn all the Coaching things, yes. And this beautiful pathway, which I just want to back up for a minute because something you said struck me about walking alongside our patients. 

So as a Nurse prior to Nurse Coaching, my experience had been that I had a plan of care that I would implement, and the patient is going to come along with me. So basically, I'm dragging the patient along with me, they don't really have a choice. 

You know, I thought they were having a choice but the choices were forced in a way, because we have things that we need to get done and those things are necessary and we will get them done because we are the Nurses in charge of the patient. And so now Nurse Coaching steps in and allows us a different way in which to practice so that we can walk alongside our patients. 

And that is great. We can do that. But there's this component that is in between that, and that is usually me. I'm saying me because I'm speaking from "I". I was standing potentially in the way of some of this walking alongside because there were things in my mind or ways, things that I was doing that maybe weren't connected really truly with who I am. 

And so I found that this Integrative Nurse Coach Academy's program has a beautiful parallel of self awareness, self development, professional development, you know, self reflection that helped me really discover who I truly am and how I fit into Nursing in my way. Yeah.

Lindsay Frey  15:11

Yeah, I can totally relate to that, Nicole, like, I came into that program, not realizing that I was going to learn more than just communication skills. And, you know, when they were learning about leaning into my own vulnerability, I thought, oh, gosh, I don't know if that's something I want to do. 

But then realizing that was what was necessary in order to walk alongside people. And I've been working on that ever since. And I think that's going to be a lifelong work for all of us. But that's part of, you know, our role, is it's like an extension of our practice in a way, is how I like to look at it. It's leaning into the "I", right? 

And really helping ourselves be a conduit for that healing to kind of come through. So yeah, things that I never thought I would do until I got into Nurse Coaching and started down that self development path and moved across country. Like, I leaned into the appreciative inquiry and like that cycle of dreaming and hoping, and figuring out, you know, what do I truly want, and I'm like, I want to try something different. 

I want to move across country into a place I've never lived. So I moved to Washington State. And, yeah, it was amazing— the ocean, the mountains, all within driving distance. And just not only that, but like, I think sometimes it's these little steps we take that actually have a... you know, translate really pretty powerfully into our practice. 

So, you know, I had to trust myself in that, I had to, you know, ask for help when I was feeling really vulnerable, and know that I can do that. Also, in my professional life, too. So it's been interesting, I recently am trying to lean into things that I thought previously scared me, like learning how to swim. I know, I'm like 40 years old and learning how to swim, but I'm loving it. 

Nicole Vienneau  16:24

Amazing!

Lindsay Frey  16:40

Yeah. So I'm finding, though, like, I'm learning how to trust myself right underneath the water. And that, you know, in the unknown of what, you know, what previously felt super scary, it's like, I can trust, I can trust that I'll be okay. 

And so when I'm with clients, and with Nurses with Nurse Coaching, I'm trusting the silence and trusting that, you know, the wisdom is going to come through and, you know, just letting it kind of bubble up to the surface, if you will. So it's interesting how the two are kind of connected, leaning into some of these opportunities.

Nicole Vienneau  18:19

So the vulnerability, of course, of learning something you were fearful of— swimming, being in the water or being under the water, potentially— and then connecting the silence of being under the water. And trusting yourself with the understanding that silence in conversation is also very powerful, and trusting that silence.

Lindsay Frey  18:49

Yeah, I, you know, I kind of talk about this with our students, too, that you need that space in order for energy to kind of be exchanged and for us to kind of hear what we're saying, and hear what the other person said. Historically, I've wanted to fill that space really. 

So yeah, it's still practice for me as well. I still have to work on it. But just yeah, trying to lean into that. And, you know, allow that space to exist so that people get the benefit of hearing themselves talk too. 

Nicole Vienneau  19:29

Yeah, I think we're all working on that. Trying not to fill the silence, fill it with something because we may be feeling uncomfortable or think, oh, you know, we have to fill the silence because that is truly what culture does. Fill it up. Fill it up with everything.

Lindsay Frey  19:49

Yeah, I was thinking that too. It's like, I don't know... often when we come upon silence, out and about in the real world, we have to create those moments. They don't just happen that often.

Nicole Vienneau  20:07

Yeah, yeah. And it takes courage to be the one to, I guess, establish silence or allow the silence or create the silence, right?

Lindsay Frey  20:22

Yeah, people aren't used to being given that opportunity. So I do find when I kind of start that with our new courses and stuff that can be kind of unnerving at first for people. And I, you know, acknowledging that and just kind of, like I say, kind of leaning into those kind of growth edges that we have. 

Just saying, oh, I wonder... like, I feel that, it's interesting. I wonder a little... being curious, you know,  what does that feel like? What do I feel is coming up within me when I'm doing these new skills and things? So that's often a conversation we have as a group in our calls.

Nicole Vienneau  21:05

Yeah, yeah. I do some work with our Nurse residents in a couple of the hospitals where I live. And they find silence very difficult. And then also, you know, listening to yourself in silence, and even just inquiry, self inquiry. Coming inwards to recognize what's going on inside through the silence. 

Lindsay Frey  21:40

Absolutely. I think that's a big part of it, too. Because oftentimes, we don't know what's occurring inside until we get into that space, and can listen to ourselves and hear what's coming up, and tends to lean back to... or to talk more about Judy's conversation earlier, just to highlight, you know, trusting the whispers, as she said, those are things that kind of come up for me too, when I'm in silence. 

So, you know, what am I being guided towards? And things like that. So, yeah, it's definitely a pretty amazing space to explore.

Nicole Vienneau  22:24

There's also so much vulnerability in that too, though— to face yourself.

Lindsay Frey  22:30

It can be scary. Yeah, absolutely. And I've found that by doing that, I've gotten myself into kind of, you know, like, oh, maybe I want to explore some of these other things, because I'm not as strong in those areas. Or maybe I need to get some support in these areas, these other things. 

So it's beautiful, but it can be scary once you get into those things. Yeah. Absolutely. For instance, one of the things I'm learning about is using my voice more. And I think what's really common for, you know, Nurses new to Nurse Coaching is how do I talk about Nurse Coaching? 

Like, you know, when I'm not even sure what this is myself, you know. It can... I reassure that it can take years to really let it sink in and let yourself explore and see what it means to you and your style of Nurse Coaching. So just encouraging folks to allow themselves to, you know, be a student in a way and just kind of see what's out there and try different things on and see how they fit.

Nicole Vienneau  23:47

Really nice advice and nice learning from past experience as well. I can tell. 

Lindsay Frey  23:53

Yes. Yeah, I was... you know, I had started to do my holistic Nursing certification in the beginning of my Nurse Coaching journey. And nine years later, I just got certified, you know, a couple of months ago, so it all happens in it's due time. It is okay.

Nicole Vienneau  24:13

It is okay. I have a mantra that I've been using lately. There is time. There is time. And there IS time. 

Lindsay Frey  24:26

Exactly. 

Nicole Vienneau  24:27

I have the time.

Lindsay Frey  24:29

And often, I feel like that's when it's most impactful too, is when it has time to kind of simmer and percolate and, you know, life events kind of help inform it more and so there's something beautiful about letting time do it's magic. 

Nicole Vienneau  24:49

It's true, so true. Yeah, instead of rushing. And I do see that in some of our new graduates of Nurse Coaching— just really rushing to start something. And there's something great about that too. Right? That forward momentum, the energy of just going for it, you know, not really having, knowing the answers and just knowing you want to do something and just do it. 

And I love that Barbie— Dr. Barbara Dossey— she's always on my shoulder in that one, like, you don't have to have all the answers, Nicole, you just got to begin. Yes, yes, yes, yes, you're right. Just begin. And then there's something to it to also allow some percolation and let things simmer, like you said, and use the experience of life to support the work you're doing. And don't sit too long.

Lindsay Frey  25:46

Yeah, no, that's so true. I have this dichotomy of that. And I just like to jump in at times too. And just like, go for it and see what happens, you know. Like, I'm thinking of taking an improv class or like karaoke, just to like, jump in and see what it feels like, you know, like, and see what that does with my practice too, you know. Like, help me use my voice in a different way. So, yeah, I totally get that.

Nicole Vienneau  26:16

I'd love to see your improv if you get to that. When you get to that. One of the things I love is comedy and improv and just listening and feeling inspired just by people who are living in the moment and just deciding, yeah, I'm going to just do it. 

Lindsay Frey  26:39

Yeah, for sure. I think there's definitely a lot of value in that. And it just gives you the confidence to try it out, you know, try things out.

Nicole Vienneau  26:51

Yeah, you don't have to do it forever. 

Lindsay Frey  26:54

Right. Exactly. And I think that's also what's great about Nursing is you can bring... you can try on a lot of different hats in Nursing and Nurse Coaching, too. You can always change niches, you can, you know, try different modalities to weave into your practice. 

You know, I learned about shamanism during COVID through virtual programs and work that I did with a practitioner, and it's like, wow, you know, maybe there are some ways that we can... I can start weaving that into my practice. So just getting curious and exploring and seeing what comes up for people, I think is so important within this work.

Nicole Vienneau  27:39

Yeah. So share with us some of the things that you are doing specifically in your Nurse Coaching practice. 

Lindsay Frey  27:47

Yeah, so I think for me, much of my work has been in Coaching other Nurses to become Nurse Coaches, but as well as Coaching people with diabetes, who have insulin pumps, and continuous glucose monitors, so looking at how to support them through their journeys with a chronic disease. 

And through both of those areas, I found that creating that sacred space for someone to be seen and heard, has been instrumental. And I've had more people tell me that that has impacted them beyond anything I've ever said, to be honest. So I think just reassuring people that are getting into Nurse Coaching that you don't have to have all the answers, you know, you truly don't have to fix. 

It's really creating that space for someone to open up and be able to share what's on their heart. I've found that that above anything else I've done within it has been so helpful. But also getting into, especially with folks that are walking the chronic disease path with perhaps diabetes, really celebrating the small steps, especially with these chronic diseases that are oftentimes more lifestyle impacted. 

Or often you know, the interventions that are mostly lifestyle focused, it's really hard to bring all these things in every day. It's a full time job for folks, on top of their lives. So I found that really celebrating the small steps— for instance, you know, not getting caught up in the weeds. Someone might have a high A1C but we can get them taking their insulin consistently and you know maybe working on counting carbs accurately for instance. 

That is huge, like and I've seen it time and time again that just celebrating those things and empowering them to continue to kind of explore ways to... like I say... I like to call it fine tune, really helps maintain their ability to continue on every day with it. And so it's been interesting to kind of weave it into that arena. I feel like there's so much that Nurse Coaches can do within lifestyle medicine. So I'm really excited for the future of that.

Nicole Vienneau  30:22

So celebrating the small victories, which is something we can just gloss over sometimes, like for ourselves and for our patients, too. But yeah, learning how to count carbs, and then implementing that is a big, small goal. But it seems like a big goal to me. 

Lindsay Frey  30:41

Me either! I always would applaud them and say the same, yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's just so interesting too, I've taken the Functional Medicine course through INCA as a student, and also have experienced functional medicine as a patient myself, and I'm just so hopeful for what that has to bring into the healthcare arena. 

Oftentimes, I would talk with my patients about more than just the normal diabetes management things that we're used to as Nurses, you know, like, I would talk about, like, how are you sleeping? You know, are you... how's your stress? You know, are you able to have a bowel movement every day? 

Like, it's amazing how those things can also have such an impact to insulin resistance, for instance. And I found it so interesting that patients were so glad that I wasn't talking about their blood sugar numbers. You know, like, let's look at something beyond that, like, how are you feeling connected in your community and things like that, it is almost like a breath of fresh air for them to kind of take a moment to step back and look at the bigger picture. 

And I found that then they would come back ready to look at other areas that maybe they weren't  as willing to do so before, just because we were looking at more than just what we typically would. So I thought that was really fascinating when I started doing that. Me too! 

Nicole Vienneau  30:43

I certainly can't do it!  Yeah, so shifting the focus away from the disease, and more towards things that are maybe of more interest to the patient, and seeing what resonates with them.

Lindsay Frey  32:31

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they often would tell me, like, nobody's ever talked to me like this about diabetes before. And I always kept thinking, Oh, this is Nurse Coaching. This is the magic of Nurse Coaching. That was really fun to see.

Nicole Vienneau  32:52

Right. And as each conversation, you yourself are becoming more, I guess, proactive in a way, of using the skills of Nurse Coaching, using and exploring that yourself for your own practice.

Lindsay Frey  33:04

Yeah, it definitely gave me confidence to be like, Oh, this is... there's something to this, like, this is working in a way that, you know, gave me more confidence, like you said, to keep exploring it. Even though, you know, sometimes the system in which I was working in maybe didn't outright say, Hey, this is a way you should be practicing, you know. 

And so having to really be a local champion in that can be... can make yourself feel a little vulnerable. So all that self development work I was doing helped me kind of create that core strength to be like, no, like, let's try this. Let's see if this will help folks out. So it's interesting how it can become full circle.

Nicole Vienneau  33:50

Exactly, yes. And it does come back, and once again, to how much focusing on ourselves and what our internal environment is feeling like, and how we can move through that. But we have to face those fears, right? I mean, I think for example some things that I've learned in life, like, I don't know, first learning how to work out and not really knowing what I was doing, like, I didn't even have a clue. 

And then wanting to share what I was learning with someone else through my experience. And people would either push back, or they would be open to that. And then when I learned Nurse Coaching, it was like, a different way of approaching the conversation. Instead of just telling, telling, telling, now, it's an invitation to the conversation, which is different than you know, just telling somebody about something. 

Lindsay Frey  34:47

Exactly. And you learn more about the person that way and they're way more engaged to want to open up. And it's so interesting because that was one of the things that, as I was wanting to become a Nurse, I'm like, I remember those Nurses who made me feel comfortable in my own personal health journey, that made me want to come back and be able to, you know, share my story again. So Nurse Coaching is really a great practice to be able to, you know, do that for people.

Nicole Vienneau  35:27

Creating the safe spaces. And so it sounds like a lot of some of your work is in— with patients— it sounds like you're seeing the patient over and over again, through the diabetes education, and so forth. And then, of course, with teaching Nurses, the Nurse Coaching skills and tools and seeing them over and over again. 

So I'm curious— to help our listeners who are at the bedside, who potentially, you know, they're seeing the same patient when the patient is having a stay, but the stays are quick, right? Our turnover of patients is quick, we're having to get things completed and done. 

And, you know, the next patient is coming. What are some ideas or some things that you've learned along your journey that can be more of a short, smaller timeframe snippet that can help our Nurses at the bedside to support them in using Nurse Coaching?

Lindsay Frey  36:22

Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah, it's just those moments of connection that you can do even when you're, for instance, like, you know, in there doing a task or something, being able to just learn what's coming up for them, for the patient. Maybe asking, like, what their goal is, or not even goal, but what is most important to them for discharge? 

Like, what are they most worried about? Or, you know, things like that, like, what are they most curious about moving forward? And then, you know, just asking, you know, what kind of challenges are you, you know, facing? And what kind of support do you have at home? 

It's kind of like these laser like, I kind of call them like laser Coaching, you know, where it's just these quick things, where you can get a sense of what's going on for them, and they might not have the answer, but even just asking the question can plant a seed. And we don't know what happens after we leave a conversation, they might take that with them and start thinking about it, and maybe potentially reach out to their primary care provider or something afterwards. 

I've heard students talk about similar scenarios. But I think one of the biggest things they can do is just championing this idea that we can change our way of communicating, even in the short encounters at the bedside. You know, our inpatient world tends to be a little hesitant to even look at that, because we're stretched in so many ways, right, and have to get so much done in such a little amount of time, and often with not many people to do the work. 

And so really just being able to find those small ways to connect with people and get a sense of how we could help them think about approaching their care maybe a little differently when they're leaving the hospital. And I always remind Nurses, it's just about planting seeds. We're not here to, you know, do anything grandiose, sometimes it's just these small seeds and ways of connecting that open up worlds for folks.

Nicole Vienneau  38:39

So I have a question related to that, because I think of just what kind of came up for me as you were talking about that and being like, not the devil's advocate, but just, you know. Because sometimes, and I can recall this at the being in the bedside before, you know, just, I think in life, I think in life, like I have stuff to get done. 

So here's me in life, getting things done and getting completed. I know I have another patient who's coming down, and they gotta get this person discharged. And here, you're asking me to ask to get connections and to ask questions that are going to open up a whole other can of worms. 

And I'm not going to be able to fix any of that. Or I'm going to feel like I need to fix the things that they're worried about when they go home. How would you approach that?

Lindsay Frey  39:29

That's a great question. Because I've thought of that myself. Like, how am I going to do this? I think just knowing that we're not going to be able to, but just bringing attention to it can make someone feel like they're being heard. They're being seen. And we're acknowledging that. 

And even just saying like, I wish I could help you more in this scenario, but I think it's important that we've talked about it, is a place to start. You might not get the same rose colored glasses answer from every patient, but I think it's... you know, just putting that energy out there is helpful. 

And like I said, potentially, we're doing this, you know, while also maybe tidying up the room to get things ready for the next thing. You know, you might have to multitask, unfortunately, to get some of this work done. But it's kind of just a place to start and open up that conversation and see what comes of it.

Nicole Vienneau  40:38

I love this. I love this because opening up the conversation, then, yet, acknowledging it. I hear what you're saying. And I'm so grateful you brought this up. It's not something that I can address, but it would be interesting for you to start thinking about how you might be able to help yourself, and what resources you might have at home to help support you. 

You know, those conversations, then putting it back into the hands of the patient or the client or the person that you're discussing, because likely they're going to have a scenario where they can reach out to that person that they never thought of. But we're not trying to fix everything, because we just can't. No one can. No one's gonna fix me. I know that. The only person who can help me is me.

Lindsay Frey  41:27

Exactly, exactly. So well said.

Nicole Vienneau  41:32

And the reality is, as Nurses, we have been taught, culturally, that we need to fix everything.

Lindsay Frey  41:41

Yeah, when I attended the... so I was in cohort nine of INCA Nurse Coaching training, and when Barbie Dossey and Susan Luck said you don't need to fix your clients, like, I felt my shoulders just like drop. I finally let a weight off my shoulders. It just felt so freeing to hear that. And then to start to live that.

Nicole Vienneau  42:04

So it gave you permission to not have to fix everything. And then your choice to then try it. What does that even look like or feel like for me?

Lindsay Frey  42:16

Yeah, it's taken me years to get to that, too, you know, that's where the kind of... it really rocked my world to think that I didn't have to do that anymore. And I think it's okay if it still, you know, kind of comes up once in a while, like, Oh, I feel myself wanting to do that, but, you know, I'm gonna take a step back here and take a breath. 

Especially during sessions, I find, you know, students bring that up, like, what if I really resonate with what someone's saying, and I know exactly what they could do to fix that. And so we talk about how to notice that feeling within yourself, let yourself kind of breathe with it, while also listening to the client's story. And then being able to kind of shift that energy back to the client. And it takes time. And there's moments when it's a lot harder to do than others.

Nicole Vienneau  43:16

It takes time. There is time. 

Lindsay Frey  43:19

There is time! Yeah! 

Nicole Vienneau  43:21

I have time. That's so great. Now in the last few moments, I have one question. And then I have another question after that. And you talked a little bit about the multidisciplinary... not... but bringing, like connecting... I guess it's more like the future of Nursing Nurse Coaching, like how do you see that being implemented?

Lindsay Frey  43:47

Yeah, I really think Nurse Coaches are going to be champions for lifestyle medicine and chronic disease management. I mean, that's where most of our illnesses are coming through, as these really complex chronic conditions that are impacting, you know, overwhelming the healthcare system, essentially. 

And I think that, you know, we often... our allopathic approach works really well at times, but you know, it's not great at fixing some of these chronic illnesses. And we know that. So I think that's where Nurse Coaches are going to come in and really help walk alongside people and help them find ways to tap into their body's innate way of healing through these lifestyle approaches and these holistic modalities and, you know, the power of nutrition and all the things that we're aware of that kind of help our bodies fine tune. 

So maybe we're not using as many medicines as before or not having to rely as heavily on them. But also, you know, definitely medicine has its place. So, not to go away from it. I think they can complement each other very well. 

But yeah, I just really feel like Nurse Coaches are going to be a big part of that— with the communication style that we have in Coaching to help people tap into that and really find a way to weave it into their lives— we can really champion what that looks like.

Nicole Vienneau  45:23

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Yes, being a champion for something new— newer— definitely in the world of healthcare, and complementing it with allopathic medicine, moving more into lifestyle strategies, better sleep, what we're eating, our relationships, finances, all of those things, and how we can support our patients and clients and communities by walking alongside them, instead of just telling them what to do.

Lindsay Frey  45:52

Yeah, and we know that patients want this. Like, they're just hungry for it. And they're looking for it. And so I think we have a place to help fulfill that want.

Nicole Vienneau  46:04

Yeah, yeah. So good. So now I would like to invite you to dive into your heart space a little bit, and just opening up your heart, and just sharing what's on your heart that you would like to express to our listeners today?

Lindsay Frey  46:26

Yeah, I think it's just encouraging people to take a chance, to really lean into your vulnerability, just kind of befriend yourself and see what comes up for you, knowing it doesn't have to look perfect. And you have time, like you said.

Nicole Vienneau  46:47

Thank you for that. So, Lindsay, thank you so much for being a guest with us here on the Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. We'd love to know how we find you. 

Lindsay Frey  46:59

Oh, sure. Yeah, I have a LinkedIn profile. Otherwise, you can reach me at my email address with INCA.

Nicole Vienneau  47:09

All right, and we're gonna put the links into our show notes so you can find Lindsay there. And I so appreciate you spending your time with us today. I know our listeners soaked up every bit of your wisdom, all the pearls and goodness, and we look forward to seeing you continue to shine.

Lindsay Frey  47:25

Thanks, Nicole. Thank you for the invite.