Nicole Vienneau  00:00

Welcome, everyone, to the Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. My name is Nicole Vienneau. I am your host, and I'm also a Board Certified Integrative Nurse Coach. And I am super jazzed right now because today we have a very special guest. I have been watching her through her whole career and enjoying all of the passion and love and just devotion that she brings to Nursing and to life in general. 

And I would love to welcome Joanne Turnier. She is a Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach. She's a Board Certified Holistic Nurse. And she's at a point in her career where titles no longer matter. She gets to do what she wants to do when she wants to do it, just sharing her beautiful love and passion for holistic Nursing and holistic wellbeing and all the great things that she's doing. And I'm just really, really happy that we all get to spend this time together with Joanne. So welcome, Joanne.

Joanne Turnier  01:07

Oh, thank you so much. And I'm so happy to be here with you. And just share this time. I love talking to you and seeing you. So thank you. 

Nicole Vienneau  01:18

Ah, well, we're going to be soaking up all of your wisdom. I'm excited!

Joanne Turnier  01:24

I don't know about that. But we'll see.

Nicole Vienneau  01:28

We'll see, sure! So, Joanne, we love to start off a little bit going down history lane. And we'd love to know the story of why you decided to become a Nurse.

Joanne Turnier  01:39

Oh my gosh, you know, it's funny because I became a Nurse later in my life. When I was a little girl, I wanted to be a Nurse. And I was going back and forth between being a theater major and a registered Nurse. And my aunt, who was my mother's youngest sister— we were like 12 years apart because my mom's family was huge— she said, why do you want to be a Nurse for? She said, all you're gonna do is change bedpans. 

And I was like, oh, my goodness. So it turns out that I became a theater major. Okay, and even though I love the theater, and I loved that type of work, it didn't jive with me. What happened was, I needed to work full time. So I quit college to work full time. And I wound up working as a waitress, and then I wound up going to medical assistant school, because that's what I could afford at the time. 

Right. So I went to medical assistant school, I became a lab technician through that schooling. And I felt very at home in the medical field. It turns out, moving forward a number of years later, we had some career changes in my married life. And my husband said, why don't... you always wanted to be a Nurse, why don't you go back to school? 

And of course, my response back then was, oh, I don't think I could do it. I have the children. I'm not smart enough. I'm not all those things that we kind of tell ourselves. So he said, alright, listen, just go one day a week. Go on a Saturday, he said, and I'll stay home with the kids. And just take one class. So I did. I took anatomy and physiology for a whole year. And I did very well in it. 

And I began my journey into Nursing. I was the first class that graduated as an evening class with an associate's degree. And then back then they allowed Nurses to start a position without a license, you could work under your preceptors license. And they allowed us to start in a specialty. 

And so the local hospital here was a county hospital, had three positions in neonatal intensive care, believe it or not. And for me, I mean, I loved the babies, and I loved the challenge. So the three of us from the same class went into the hospital. And we, for 12 weeks, without being board certified as an RN, we worked with preceptors and we learned and it was amazing. 

You know, when I look back on that part of my life, I felt like I wasn't working. I was just having such a good time. And, you know, neonatal intensive care is not always very easy. First of all, the unit is isolated from the rest of the hospital. And the baby can't tell you a thing. 

So you have... you know, your patient can tell you a thing, your assessment skills really have to be... you have to hone in on them. And also you're not only treating the patient but you're treating the family. And that was the foundation for the rest of my Nursing career. 

And I think what that called forth for me was this integrative holistic approach, because, you know, you're dealing with the whole family, you're dealing with someone who can't tell you how they feel, where it hurts, or, you know. So, you're pulling out all of the things that you know, or don't know and look up, to see how can you really, you know, give this little baby and their family the best possible care, which comes from really inside of each Nurse. 

There's skill, yeah, but there's that other component that is extremely dynamic, and is constantly changing. And I think that really was a beautiful way for me to find out more about myself, to learn, and, you know, to have the camaraderie of a neonatal ICU unit, it was really amazing. And I have beautiful memories of that time. So, that's where I started.

Nicole Vienneau  06:06

I love this story. And I'm also imagining you as a theater major.

Joanne Turnier  06:11

Oh, God. I always loved the theater, my mother's side of the family, they're all singers and played an instrument. And, you know, I love the theater. And that was kind of an escape for me as a kid. Because, you know, sometimes life wasn't so easy as a kid. So it was, you know, as children, we used to put on shows for the neighborhood and things like this. 

We were like The Little Rascals. I mean, you know, I'm dating myself now. But, you know, I always loved the theater, and I still do, and actually, both my granddaughters are in the theater, they love it, they study music, and they love it, and I love going to the theater. 

So, you know, it's still there for me, but my path, I took a different path. But that's to say, not to say that you couldn't use some of those skills in Nursing, right? Because it's creative, you know, it's very creative, I think.

Nicole Vienneau  07:07

Absolutely. I'm thinking, you know, of all of that. And just understanding all the skills that you gained from learning about theater. And, you know, acting, whether it's acting or music or dancing, or whatever, all of that, that teamwork is also part of theater. 

Joanne Turnier  07:26

Yes. And life, because there are the tragedies and the comedies. Yes. So what we learned from those, and when you're a Nurse, you see both sides of life. You know, we are there when someone is born, usually there's a Nurse present, right? And we are there and the last person they see when they pass on and transition into death, the physical death anyway, I believe. But I think they have a lot of commonalities to be honest.

Nicole Vienneau  07:57

And then so after the NICU, did you move on to something else? 

Joanne Turnier  08:02

I did. Yeah. So I didn't really want to move on to anything else. But I was working nights. And I have to tell you, I remember my sister coming over one morning, and she looked at me, she went, you look like a porcupine or you look like a... what are they? The badgers with the dark circles under their eyes? 

Racoon, I guess. She was calling me all kinds of animal names. And I was like, but I didn't sleep. You know, I had little ones. And it was hard for me to sleep. So what happened was there was a position that was posted at the county institution. And I had some lovely friends in the neonatal, and one of them was Barbara. 

And Barbara was the joker of the team, okay, and they used to call me Mother Cabrini, believe it or not. Lovingly. And because they call me Mother Cabrini because when I was in neonatal ICU, I noticed that, you know, when we saved babies, and they grew and they went home, that was great, but we weren't so good at, you know, interventions that surrounded the sadder stories where the babies were very sick, and they passed away, and their families were just left, or they had genetic issues. 

And I wondered, you know, how are we addressing the grief, this profound loss in the unit? How are we prepared as Nurses and other clinical staff to create an environment that allows one to grieve or one to feel cared for while they're grieving? So what happened was, I created along with my colleagues, a bereavement program. 

We created booklets, and a lot of times we looked at the literature, we worked with the volunteers, they brought us memory boxes, and this was back in the 90s when this really wasn't being done so much. And I remember I had a guest speaker come, a Nurse who had lost a child, who was a Nurse, she came and told her story.

 And after that, we were all so moved that I decided to go to the department head for GYN and ask for money. And what I did was... they told me he was so cheap that he wouldn't give us any money. And I was so moved by this Nurse's story, and knew the importance of the grief process or giving resources or you know, being there. And I went to him and he gave me money, and I couldn't believe it. 

And we purchased memory boxes, the volunteers had folks who knitted little hats and sweaters, and we were able to expand that program to miscarriages and stillbirths, you know, and then in pediatrics. But after that was done, this new position came along, and it was a day position, an eight to four, and my children were school age. 

So they said Mother Cabrini, you have to... this is just what they said, okay? You have to interview for this. And I said, no, I love what I do. I'm not. Well, it's a day job, it'll be better for you. And it's a family support Nurse, and that's what you do. Because if a baby passed away, in the literature at that time, it said the mom or dad, we should offer them to see the baby, right? 

And the Nurses would go in and say they don't want to see, I'm sorry. And I would be like, what do you mean they don't want to see him? How did you go in? What did you say? So that's, hence, they used to give me the babies, or give me the babies who were dying so that I could take care of the families. 

And make sure that we began that grief process or really did an assessment to make certain that the decisions those mommies and daddies were making were truly the decisions that were true to them by asking specific questions, and that they wouldn't feel, you know, sorry in the long run, that they didn't do something or so. 

So that's... hence that name. So anyway, to make a long story short, I said, okay, I'll interview. And this was the... she was the Director of Nursing Education, who actually, you know, had this position. And it happened to be her thesis, where she went down to the emergency room, she was on beeper, and she was called for every trauma. 

And she would minister to the families of these trauma victims. And some of them would go to the operating room or the ICU, and some of them were dying. If they died, actually, she would be there with the family. And the COO allowed her to implement her thesis. So she interviewed 16 Nurses, and she gave me the job, and I couldn't believe I had the job. 

And so I began, I knew nothing about adults, okay, except what I learned in Nursing school. I knew nothing about trauma, grief and loss, okay, only what I learned from the neonatal ICU. And I was petrified. 

But then I became the educator for death and dying for the hospital because we had annual programs, and then at that time, the Self Determination Act came out and all the information on autonomy, how we, you know, allow people to be autonomous in their decision making, living wills came out, all of these kinds of things. 

And so that was my job, to teach the hospital staff an annual program about death and dying. That led me into working with the chaplaincy. And then I worked with all the chaplain interns, and really started to expand the family support service. That's what we called it. And that was a big springboard because what happened was, I realized that I couldn't do it by myself. 

And so chaplaincy was part of this. I also spoke with the pediatric Nurses, the ICU Nurses, they didn't care for me in the beginning because they said that when my boss, who was the person who implemented the program, would go to the units, she would say, you're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong, you should do that. And they thought I was going to do the same. 

So I brought them bagels, and the bagels helped me to get my foot in the door. And then I told them what my vision was for this, and then they started to listen. So it was really a beautiful transformation because we look at the patient and the family. And what I learned from those patients in neonatal ICU and the patients in the trauma room and the families is that it's not what I think they need, they will invite us, just like in coaching, right? 

They in invite us through what they're asking, through what they're doing. They invite the intervention, you see. So it's really co-creating what kind of experience do you want to have? And is there someone there who can let the ego go, let the Nursing knowledge and research go for a few minutes, and actively, deeply listen to what their needs are. 

And that for 14 years, I did that in the hospital. And I have to tell you, it was really a very rewarding job. But there were a lot of changes that took place in that hospital, you know, towards the end of my tenure there, and they were not open to continuing the family support service, because they said that it was not a money making producer. 

And so... but what it really saved was a liability and years and years of therapy for families who didn't understand what was happening. And all of a sudden, could have someone there. And you know, then it really spread into the Nurses and the ICU, and so on and so forth. Because they began to create spaces, sacred spaces for families. 

And you know, you'd walk in the ICU back then and you'd see the patient's favorite blanket, or you'd see the patient's church family come and sing around the bedside, or you'd see different objects, you know, sacred objects around the bedside to honor people of different cultures who like to wash the body after death. 

To allow that to happen, to teach the staff this is okay in a controlled... you know, to have a psychologist on board for children who lost parents or grandparents suddenly, to have chaplains come. And then we started our own Kiwanis Club, we were the only Kiwanis Club in a hospital setting where we filter money to have a big service at the end of the year for staff and families to come back to around Christmas time. 

But we would have angel ornaments on a holiday tree, and then they'd be able to take that ornament home with them after the holidays. And they knew that it was a place where their loved one wasn't forgotten, where staff could grieve, and where there was support through all of these departments. 

But again, there was a reengineering. And I was told that I was going to become a patient rep and that I was going to be doing Press Ganeys, and I at the same time got an offer from another major tertiary hospital to become a coordinator of a family communication program. It was, you know, in the area. 

But the reason for that program was— and I didn't know this at the time— organ donation was a big deal back then, it just started where we'd have to mandate to report every sudden death, and so on and so forth. And this other hospital, I won't name it, was very interested in obtaining a CNO for kidney transplant program. 

But they wouldn't be granted the CNO because their organ donation rates were extremely low— in the 20s percentile. So they found out that I was working in Nassau County, and the consent rates there were very high. And they said, well, why are they so high there? That's q very diverse population, so on and so forth. 

And the reason being was the patients and the families were supported during the time of crisis. So when the staff or physicians had to have a discussion about what to do, what their trajectory was, and so on and so forth, they understood better, and they were better able to make sound decisions. 

And most people are altruistic, because most people who have folks who are in a trauma very sudden, they search for meaning, and they want meaning. And many of them found solace in saying yes, if our loved one, you know, couldn't be alive because of this tragedy, perhaps he could give life or she could give life to someone else. 

So that's why the rates were high. So I went over to that other hospital, started a program there, and certainly over the years, along with another Nurse who was amazing, and the consent rates went up, they got their CNO, then that grant was granted programs, so that grant was over and the hospital decided that they didn't need a program like this anymore. 

And once again, I was told, oh, you'll go to ICU. And I said, no, that's not where I belong right now. So what came along? The stroke coordinator position came along. Now, I did not know anything about stroke, okay, I did not. And that was back in the day when TPA was just being, you know, offered. 

So that program, we built from the bottom up, and it became a big system program. And that was my next position. So you can see, it's very diverse, you know, I started with babies in the beginning of life, then the end of life, then trauma. I was in the burn unit there, I was in all over the hospital there. 

And then I go to family communication. Again, I'm told it's not needed. Second time. So this was like, [sigh], you know? But I was able to implement all those things, not just creating stroke and TPA, but the humanitarian component of looking at the whole patient and family, when someone in your family has a stroke happen to them, what do we do? What do we do about that? 

So yes, it was the skill, it was the core measures, it was all of that. But then we created support groups for brain aneurysm, for stroke, there was a stroke club, there was a brain tumor support group. And we worked through all of that. And I became very interested in health literacy at that time, because I felt that half the battle was that folks didn't know how to identify stroke, they didn't know about their disease process, that they felt hopeless. 

And so you know, you can give them all the education, but most folks can't read above a fourth grade level. So I began to serve on a committee for the hospital with this other Nurse who started health literacy, and really created a lot of education, written education around health literacy for stroke patients, they did it for the cardiac units, they did it for... I did a whole bereavement booklet for the hospital. 

And, you know, that was very important to me at the time. But this is where I got a little muffled. And this is my journey into coaching. So I went and I was asked to go from that position, the stroke position, to a position in the office of health literacy diversity, and became... first I was a project manager, and then I became the Director of Patient Education and Health Literacy for the system. 

And that did me in. And I'll tell you why, looking back. We must follow our Dharma, yes? We must follow the true path. And when we get muffled into all of this stuff, we lose sight of who we are. And that's what happened to me. I couldn't... the way I live my life and the way I am and the stressors that were in my life, did not coordinate or align with what they were asking of me. 

And what they, I guess, wanted to mold me into. I could never be molded, you know, I always had to be true to me. But there I got a little mixed up, okay, and I wasn't used to system work and all the personalities and the egos and the pressure and I wasn't used to that. So I got sick, very sick. And I went out on disability. And I couldn't get myself together. I was extremely depressed, extremely anxious. 

I was rolled up into a ball on the couch. I really didn't think I was going to be a Nurse ever again. And a friend of mine— she was a Nurse that I used to do some holistic things with as a stroke coordinator before code lavender was a thing, we had a care program where we would do all that kind of work together. 

And she called me because she knew I was out. And she was basically one of the only ones that called me. And she said to me, I'm having a class at my house. I want you to come. And I said, well, what kind of class do you have? And she goes, well, it's a coaching class. You know, I just became a coach. She was in cohort one. 

And for those of you who want to know who this person is, it's Deborah McElligott. And she is my dear friend, and she called me, and she lives by the beach, okay, so she was beautiful setting. And she had a one day class. It's now the fundamentals class that we're all taught, you know? And she said, come. 

And I said, no, I'm done. I'm not going to be a Nurse anymore. She goes, no, no, no, just come to my house at the beach. She said, there's gonna be like minded people here. She talks like this, Debbie, you know. And she said, you could bring a friend, bring a friend, bring a friend if you want to come. And this is what she's saying. 

So I brought my friend Maria. And we went to Debbie's house, and she was right, the people who were in her house, I felt alive again. We had little conversations, you know, when we practice active listening, and all this stuff in the fundamentals class. And we had lunch, and we talked, and I felt a sense of camaraderie. 

I felt a sense of some kind of feeling that was coming back for me, you know? So I did that. And then Debbie said, you know, they're having cohort at Alma house, in Manhattan, I'd really love for you to come. She says, you know, I was cohort one. Now we're up to cohort eight. 

And that's going... why don't you come? It's a year program, it's this, it's that. I said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. She goes, no, just come. So, I went. And you know what happens after that— Barbie, Susan, and all the faculty and, you know, you feel like, oh. 

And you're in, you know, Alma Matthews house where it was a home from this Methodist minister's wife who took in girls who were in the, you know, turn of the 19th century, you know, 20th century, took in girls because they were being abused. And you're in this house with these people who you're like, oh, my God, this is amazing. 

So I go through the coaching program, and a few months after I go through the coaching program, they asked me to become faculty for the program. Hence, going through the coaching program, you become... you don't learn to be a coach, you evolve into a different person. 

Because it's not just a class where you're checking off the boxes, you become a different person, you begin to meditate, you begin to eat better, you begin to be more aware of where you are, what you need to work on. You connect yourself with like minded people, you discern better. And I've been on this journey for almost 10 years, right? 

So in the middle of this, I'm getting my doctorate in Nursing practice, I'm quitting my job, my uncle's dying, my son's getting married. You know, all that craziness is happening. But that was like very stable for me, you know, and certainly, I had the opportunity to teach all over the country. So that really was great for me. 

And meet wonderful, wonderful people throughout this experience. So that's what I did. And I still do, don't think it's finished. It's never finished, you know? And I feel so fortunate to have Debbie as my dear friend. We have a whole group of holistic Nurses and Nurse coaches that meet here in my area in New York. 

We're very close, we're like, our tribe, right? You know, we have this wonderful opportunity to bring forth integrative health, holistic Nursing, our spirituality, our interests. I just did a book club on Ram Dass's Paths to God, and so many truths in that book, as I have taken my journey for all this time, right? 

It has really supported what I'm telling you. You're never finished. And if anybody thinks because you meditate every day, or you walk in nature every day, that you're all zen, that is not the case, it's a work in progress forever.

Nicole Vienneau  29:14

You're never finished. That's true.

Joanne Turnier  29:16

You're never finished. And I think the only thing is, is that you cultivate, not a need, but it's like you want to be in that sacred space, you want to meditate so that you can connect with spirit or divine or whatever you connect with, you know. 

And it just becomes part of your life. So that's been my journey. I mean, you know, if you have another six hours, I could tell you more. You know, and I'm sure every single Nurse, every single human being on this earth has a journey like this. 

You know, it's like, I call it... I learned about the hero's journey through coaching, right? And yes, you go, you go, you go, and then something big happens. And then you try to, you know, re-navigate or reinvent yourself and then you come out a little better than you were before with more lessons, more experience and so on. So it's been really a great experience, so to speak. 

Nicole Vienneau  30:20

Yes, absolutely. And so, so many wonderful experiences along the way on your journey. And, you know, really being witness to what's going on in culture, as well as the shifts within healthcare. And really what I took away the most is like, remembering to be true to who we are. 

And how easy it can be to be dissuaded or pulled away from our trueness because we're in systems that want us to do certain things. They want to push us in the direction or mold us, like you said, trying to do that and turn us and twist us in ways, which really don't necessarily always align with what our values and truths are. 

So I was really connecting with that piece. Because I, too, have felt that and I see this and witness this on a daily basis in the work that I do in hospitals. So, I'm curious to know what kind of advice you would have for Nurses who are still working in these systems that may not be supporting their truth, and how they can still align with what they value the most.

Joanne Turnier  31:42

So, while you're talking, I'm thinking the word responsibility comes to me, comes to my mind. And we do go to work in systems, and the system— who we are and who we bring to that position or that environment is extremely important. 

And I find that many Nurses who have I've encountered— I've taught also in Nursing schools— self esteem, and self love is a big issue for many, many Nurses that I've come in contact with. This feeling of not being good enough, not being enough. Hence, all the degrees. 

And they're all fine and dandy, don't get me wrong, but it's never enough, okay. That I think we need to, before we say, oh, the system pulls me through, the system is trying to mold me, if I was in a different mindset, or if I had the confidence I have now or the grounding and the knowing that I have now of who I am, I would have never gone through all of that hurt and suffering. 

So what I would say to anybody, Nurses especially because we're talking about Nurse Coaching, is to... if you don't feel like enough, if you feel like you need something more, start talking to someone about why you feel that way. And really cultivate a sense of awareness. And you're not going to find the answer outside yourself. 

You're not going to find the answer outside yourself. You're going to have to go inward and find out what is leading me to the decisions that I am making right now that seem to bring me to a place that is uncomfortable or that is not aligned with who my true self is. And I think it starts like Barbie's models, right? Her theory, the "I". 

We must start with ourselves before we, you know, can help anyone else. And living proof of this is— I'm gonna go back to my story, right? When I became a family support Nurse. Know it, I had an associate's degree, didn't finish my bachelor's yet. I had no experience in grief and loss except what was in the neonatal intensive care. None. 

Yet, I felt complete. I felt that even though the job was hard at times and difficult and I did have a bit of compassion fatigue, don't get me wrong, I felt so sure about what I was doing, what I was saying. I wasn't a coach then. It was almost as if there was this deep knowing inside of me, this soulful knowing that allowed me to deeply listen, to not push people through things. 

And when I look back with my education now and all that I've been through, I had everything I needed at that time in my life to do that job, and I didn't even realize it. So, it's time to pause. We talked about taking the pause, right? Taking the pause in coaching, to put our brakes on, to take a breath, to dig deeper. 

Are we leading with our mind and our ego? Or are we allowing our soul and the multi-dimensional being that we were created to be lead the rest of us? That is the question. And the soul must lead. We need to invite our soul back into our bodies, and the soul will inform the rest. That is my philosophy. 

That's why I say to you, I don't... you asked me how I would like you to introduce me... Yes, all these degrees at one time was so important because I said to myself, well, maybe if I have this, then they'll accept me. Maybe if I do that, maybe if... No. 

This is it. And whatever I am, I am. And whatever I've learned from my own experience, I've learned. And whatever I have to learn now for the rest of my life, then I will learn. And I will bring myself to wherever I'm needed. And that's it. That's it. It's simple.

Nicole Vienneau  32:53

I love the simplicity.

Joanne Turnier  36:31

Took me almost 70 years to get to this. It's not easy, you know, but at least I'm feeling like I'm getting it, I'm starting to get it. Right? I'm starting to get it, you know? 

Nicole Vienneau  36:50

And you've said, you know, you're never finished. We're never finished. 

Joanne Turnier  36:54

No, no. 

Nicole Vienneau  36:56

And you're still... but you're still at this point of all of this experience, elevating yourself to truly understand yourself. 

Joanne Turnier  37:06

Yeah, it's true, took me long enough, don't you think?

Nicole Vienneau  37:11

Oh, we're all on this journey, girl.

Joanne Turnier  37:13

I know. But yeah. So that's kind of in a nutshell. And I think if there is a Nurse who sees this, who doesn't know what coaching is, it's not just another certification or degree. It's... you live it, you begin to live it, and you... and it really helps you to find yourself, find your soul, find your purpose, be comfortable in your own skin to stand up to anybody who tries to tell you different.

Nicole Vienneau  37:43

Yeah, it's definitely more than just the checkboxes of yes, this is motivational interviewing, and these are the questions that you can ask to, you know, get the client to ponder deeper into themselves. It's way more than that. It is those things, too... 

Joanne Turnier  37:58

Yes. And that's important to learn, to always be. But, you know, we just... the conference we just went to out in Miami, which was lovely, for anybody who wants to go to that conference next time. 

Nicole Vienneau  38:09

Yeah, the Integrative Nurse Coach Symposium in Miami, Florida, which our last two podcast releases 72 and 73 are reflections from that time, so if you haven't listened to those episodes, I'll put those in the show notes. I also wanted to bring back Deb McElligott too, because she's been a guest on this podcast, too. 

She's episode number 56: How to Take Nurse Coaching Anywhere! is the title of that one. Yeah, I'm gonna put that into the show notes too. So we'll have all those resources. So tell us about the conference or what you want to bring up?

Joanne Turnier  38:47

What I want to tell you about the conference is I've seen so many young Nurses who were actually presenting, and there was one in particular, I forget her name, but she was doing the bowls.

Nicole Vienneau  39:00

Oh, Chelsea. Chelsea McGee.

Joanne Turnier  39:02

And Chelsea was speaking and then she did the singing bowls for us, which was beautiful. But when she was speaking, I began to tear up. And here she was, this beautiful, vibrant, not... you know, a seasoned but young Nurse, right, younger than me anyway, at least probably half my age. And she was so wise. What she was saying, she learned so young. 

And so after— and I was just listening to her and I was welling up. And I was saying, it's working. It's working. It's happening. They're getting it. Because the saddest thing for me, even as an adjunct faculty for a Nursing program, was to see everybody so stuck. 

How will they learn? And here she was at a young age. So, after she did her singing bowls, I went up to her. She didn't know me. And I don't know her personally. But I hugged her. And I said, you know, you don't know me, but what you said was beautiful. Your singing bowls are beautiful. 

And I am so proud of you. And we both teared up. And I just felt so close to... it was such a gift. That's what I want to say. So that's my hope for all Nurses, that you get it, you finally get it and you feel comfortable in your own skin. And you don't have to make excuses for who you are or what you do. You are enough. Just the way you are. Just the way you are. 

Nicole Vienneau  40:36

Yeah. No more excuses. 

Joanne Turnier  40:51

No more excuses. I know. It's a lot.

Nicole Vienneau  41:02

I just needed to take a breath and bring it all in. 

Joanne Turnier  41:05

I know it's a lot. I know. But that's how I feel. So, I'm telling you the truth.

Nicole Vienneau  41:11

Yes. And we appreciate hearing your truth, and that you are courageous enough to share the truth, your truth. 

Joanne Turnier  41:18

Thank you. 

Nicole Vienneau  41:20

So in thinking of our younger Nurses, and even our older... I shouldn't... I'm putting this in quotations if you're listening just on the podcast. "Older." 

Joanne Turnier  41:28

More mature. 

Nicole Vienneau  41:30

Mature yes, we're mature, because I fit into that boat too. Just thinking of those... of the Nurses who may be struggling at this point in their time as a Nurse, and being moms, dads, aunts, uncles, tragedies happening, things changing, roles being pulled out from under them, and you know, voluntold to go into other positions. What is some advice that you could give them?

Joanne Turnier  42:01

So, when I decided to leave the health system, it was a very difficult decision for me because I felt like one of those Nurses, those folks who you're talking about. But the thing I kept saying was, oh my god, I have a family, oh, my gosh, I can't leave this job with this money. 

Oh, I can't. And I kept trying to make it work, trying to make it work, trying to make it work. And I got sicker and sicker. You know, I decided, what's more important to me? I'm a Nurse, I can get a job anywhere. I mean, you can. It might not be the job that you have now, but if something is making you sick, you need to let go of it, you will find a way. 

Since I left, I didn't need the four walls of a healthcare organization to be a Nurse. That's what I learned. I could step outside of that dysfunction and I could be a Nurse anywhere. Anywhere. There are so... you know, Nursing is a diverse profession. You could find another way that aligns, that better aligns with who you are. It doesn't have to be in a system. 

And coaching is a perfect thing, because many of our colleagues have their own practice. I know some colleagues who are going into systems to try to make a difference there. So you know, there are so many different aspects of Nursing. And don't think that you have to stay if it's making you sick. You do not have to stay if it's making you sick. 

Take a breath. Maybe take some time off to figure out what you want in your career. And what kind of folks do you want to work with? What kind of an environment do you want? Now, yes, there's always going to be stress in any work environment, but it's what can we live with? 

You know, and also I think it helps to, you know, cultivate a wellness program or a wellbeing program for self, so that you can better, you know, develop your emotional intelligence or better develop your tolerance or see things as an observer and not feel like you're emotionally involved in them, and see things objectively. 

So, there are a lot of little components to what I'm saying to Nurses who feel stuck. It's about putting a program of wellbeing into place for self. It's about, really, I bet you if I asked some of these folks who are going through this, what do you want? They've forgotten what they want. 

They're so used to having to be on that wheel. You know, the gerbil wheel, that you say, you know, what do you want? What do you love? What brings you joy? What brings you joy? What do you want to do in one year, three years, and five years? What's your vision for yourself? We've lost all that. 

And I'm living proof that I'm still standing. I still own my house. I am still standing after leaving that position before retirement. So I found a way to make a living. I also, you know, started a business, and I just made it work. 

But there's always a way out. But you have to do a bit of work so that you really come up with a plan as to what you want in your life. How do you want to live? How do you want to be? Who do you want to work with? What brings you joy? You know, and these are the things that are important. 

Nicole Vienneau  45:55

Yeah, coming back to the "I". Right. We have to do some of the hard work of looking at ourselves, and asking those hard questions, and then listening. Listening to the answers. 

Joanne Turnier  46:09

Yep. Yeah. And, you know, really implementing. And if you can't, I mean, sometimes you need help. While I was going through this, many of my Nurse colleagues, you know, like I said, we created a little tribe, right, of like minded Nurses. We do healing circles together and things like this. Find your tribe, find like minded folks who feel as you do and figure out, you know, come together and support one another. That's really important to have that support.

Nicole Vienneau  46:41

Yes, definitely. Yes. And if, you know, going to those offerings that people have out there, like there are so many things that we can tap into in our communities. And often offerings are, you know, people don't come. And there's choices to be made for ourselves, and we can make those choices.

Joanne Turnier  47:03

Absolutely. And I think what happens is they feel so overwhelmed, that they say I can't do another thing. You know, and that other thing might be a wellness program, or perhaps learning to meditate, or whatever it is, I mean, I know you do a lot of programs. What I would suggest is just try it a couple of times. 

Just try it. I mean, if there's a healing circle for Nurses, try it. It's out there, it's there for you. And they're not the only one. Don't think you're the only one that's going through this, because you're not the only one. It's like the pink elephant in the room. Nobody's talking about it, but it's there. It's there. It's okay. It's okay to be vulnerable. That's how you begin to heal.

Nicole Vienneau  47:55

Yes, I really do appreciate that reminder, that we are not the only one. I have suffered. I continue to feel suffering and sorrow and sadness. And you know, and sometimes you look around and you think, oh, everybody's got their schmeckt together. I'm the only one who's not handling this well. And yet, we're all human, and all experiencing emotions on different levels. And we're not the only one. 

Joanne Turnier  48:32

That's right. Well said. It's true. It's true. 

Nicole Vienneau  48:38

Ah, so in our last few moments, I love to ask this question. What is on your heart that you would like to share with our listeners? 

Joanne Turnier  48:55

Hmm. Well, first of all, I feel very grateful that I have the opportunity to share some of my experiences. And my hope is that whoever listens to this gets something out of it. Maybe they're at the beginning of their journey. Maybe they're the middle or the end. I don't know. There's never an end, though. 

But I hope they will consider some of the things we spoken about and really see how those things that we spoke about pertain to them. Where can they begin their journey for healing mind, body and soul? You know, their awareness journey, whatever you want to call it. 

You know, for me, that's the soft spot in my heart. Because when I became a Nurse all the way back, I was like, 36 years old when I became a Nurse, right? And when I went to my graduation, I felt complete. You know, I felt complete in a different way than other aspects of my life. 

It was different than having my children, that was pure joy, right? Or being married, that was joyful. But there was a completeness that I felt, and I carried that completeness into the neonatal ICU with me because I didn't...  I didn't have any experience yet. I wasn't tainted. 

I was just wide-eyed and... right? I hope that for them, I hope that they can continue to be wide-eyed, curious and cultivate a sense of wellbeing for themselves first. Always put yourself first. We were told differently. And then bring whatever joy, whatever happiness, whatever you cultivate within yourself, bring it into those rooms in the hospitals where it is so desperately needed. 

Your light. And for those of you who won't work in a system, you can bring yourself wherever you go. Remember that. It could be in a supermarket, it could be outside, it could be anywhere. You are the office. You are the organization. You are whatever it is that you want, you are it. So, that's it. That's what I would say. And I hope I get to see it, just like I saw it that day at the symposium. Those moments are so pure joy. So, yeah, made me happy.

Nicole Vienneau  51:43

Thank you for sharing. 

Joanne Turnier  51:46

You're very welcome. Thank you for the opportunity to share.

Nicole Vienneau  51:51

Yes. So, if someone is looking for you, what's the best way they could reach out to you? 

Joanne Turnier  51:56

So, probably email, and right now my email is JT2355@gmail.com. Probably in the next month or so I'm going to change my email, but I'll still keep that one. And then whoever reaches out to me, I'll give them my new email because that email's blowing up.

Nicole Vienneau  52:20

Time to move on!

Joanne Turnier  52:21

Time to move to a different email. So, you know, but for now, that would be a good thing. 

Nicole Vienneau  52:25

Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for spending time with all of us today, and for sharing your beautiful wisdom and inspiration with us, and I just can't thank you enough. 

Joanne Turnier  52:39

You're very, very welcome. It's my pleasure. Thank you so much.