Nicole Vienneau  00:00

Welcome, everyone, to the Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. My name is Nicole Vienneau. I am a Board Certified Integrative Nurse Coach, and I'm also your host of this amazing podcast. And I love Nurse coaches. I love Nurses and I love Nurse coaches. And today is another great day, because we get to interview another amazing Nurse coach. 

She has been in the Nurse coaching world since around 2014 from cohort number six, and she has seen a lot of changes happening, personally, professionally, with Nurses and Nurse coaching, and her story is unique. You know, some of us are on a path, we don't know where we're going. 

Some of us know exactly where we're going. And so as we we get to hear Annie Jones' story, we'll get to hear her journey and how she has opened up her world. And sometimes things happen for certain reasons, and the universe will let us know exactly why. 

And so we get to listen to the story of Annie Jones, who's all the way from Council Bluffs, Iowa. And you know, I'm going to stop talking, because I think Annie needs to introduce herself. So welcome, Annie.

Annie Jones  01:23

Hi, Nicole. It is good to be here. I'm very excited to be a part of the story telling, you know, the inner weaving of all of these different podcasts and all these different stories that come together and make our profession wonderful. 

Nicole Vienneau  01:38

Oh, so, so good. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your story and coming along the journey with you. So we love to take a trip down history lane and learn a little bit about why you even decided to become a Nurse.

Annie Jones  01:54

I will try to make that brief. I have to say there's two parts to that. And one was I experienced at a very young age, probably around 8, 9 years old, and my grandmother had cancer. Now think about this being back in the 1960s, late 1960s, not a lot of treatment, and I watched her, and have some vivid memories of what that was like as I watched my mother and the whole family watch her die and then go through different treatments over the course of a year. 

Anyway, I declared at that age that I was not going to be a Nurse, I was going to be a physician and I was going to cure cancer. How about that? Anyway, so, and that thought continued until I graduated from high school, went to college, was taking all the prep courses, taking the MCAT, you know, the whole nine yards. 

Then I became a certified... not a certified, because we weren't certified in the way that Nurse aides are certified now. But I got a little certificate for a whole one week training, and went to KU Med Center, and got my first job when I was a freshman in college. And interestingly enough, there was a... 

I got to go to the oncology unit, and I didn't know that that was the one that was, you know, that was my first pick, but there was a Nursing shortage. There was just a worker shortage at that time, and I got to go to the oncology unit. Well, so did the rest of my class, because that's where there was the biggest need and the biggest shortage. 

But I thought I was hot stuff, because I got to go where I wanted to go. And so anyway, there was a Nurse. Her name was Margaret, and I have lost track of her over time, but she really took me under her wing, and she let me do things, I mean, you know, to work with patients, to talk with patients. 

And I did more than just doing the bed bath and emptying the, you know, the Foley bag and all of that kind of thing. But she really took me around on rounds with the doctors. Got to be exposed to the doctors in this teaching hospital. And one day she sat down, she says, what really are your goals? 

And I told her, well, I want to work with patients, because my grandmother had cancer, and I want to cure cancer, but I really want to work with patients. And that's when she gave me a little lecturette on this is what's going to happen if you choose to go down the path of medicine, and if you're a Nurse, this is where you could go. 

And I just got really excited and motivated by my Nurse, Margaret, who really convinced me over the course of the next three years, because I worked my way through college. And so at the end of that, I'm like, why do I want to be a physician when I can be a Nurse and do it all? Wasn't going to cure cancer, but I was still going to do it all and take care of patients. 

So that's kind of the journey of how I got into Nursing, and it has not failed me. I have never regretted or ever wanted to get out of the profession at all. So, I mean, once a Nurse, always a Nurse, in my inner wisdom.

Nicole Vienneau  05:27

Yes, once a Nurse, always a Nurse. I love that. And I just love the vision of younger Annie and listening to the wisdom of Nurse Margaret and those conversations, and obviously the impact that she... positive, impact that she had on you in deciding what you wanted to do, and, you know, just being there for you and exposing you to really what a Nurse is.

Annie Jones  05:57

Absolutely, she was the... she just was the epitome of caring, I mean, and I couldn't have described it at that time, but there was just kind of this aura that was about her. And I do know that she went on to do great things in the oncology world. So it was awesome.

Nicole Vienneau  06:16

Sounds awesome. And so then you decided to be a Nurse. So you went to school for Nursing, achieved that education, and then what happened in your career?

Annie Jones  06:27

So I was fortunate to be in an academic medical center that allowed me to keep going to school because I loved learning. So I did get my BSN, I went back and got my MSN, and then it was in the era of my path was actually going toward leadership positions. So I had to determine what I was going to do about the the leadership and more of the business aspects. 

So I also went back to school and got my MBA. And during that whole, you know, during the 1990s if you will, I accomplished all of that business. And so I... after being a floor Nurse, and I have always been an oncology Nurse in my mind, in one way or another, either in a leadership role or actually in a clinical role on the floor, but I have done stents as a Nurse manager. 

I have been an administrator. It's kind of hard to describe, but an administrator of the medical end of Nursing, which incorporated bone marrow transplants and cardiac and all kinds of stuff. Ended up for a brief stint, this was kind of an oddity, but I was the director of surgical services for a couple of years, mostly because they were having a hard time straightening out the surgical services, and I was known as a bulldog in that particular company that I was working in. 

So I went in, and shortly after that, became the Chief Nurse of an academic medical center, and then... all these little steps. But then I got married, I got remarried, if you will, and I had to move. And that's how I ended up in Council Bluffs, Iowa, and I became a service line leader for a health... 

I think it was a nine hospital health system at that time, for oncology services, and my whole role was. Which was fun, you know, trying to pull together all of those different services from nine hospitals into one kind of service line. So that was challenging. It had pros and cons, and I probably learned more there than I've learned anywhere else about the world. Let's put it that way.

Nicole Vienneau  08:53

It sounds like, as you're talking, looking back, there's some great memories and stories that you have from there. And then also there seems to be, I don't know, I'm feeling like a little sadness.

Annie Jones  09:07

Um, yeah, you know, that's very accurate, because I was very disillusioned. I mean, if you think about,  that was probably the first 25 years of my career was in those kinds of positions, and moving through. When I was able to create— help create. I had a whole team. 

I had a wonderful team, and I enjoyed working, all the people that worked, I don't say for me, I say with me. And that team of people really were dedicated to the person, whether the patient, the survivor. And of course, I'm talking oncology, because that's my whole world. Was my whole world. 

And so I had the privilege of being able to work with healthcare professionals. That it was my job to be— at that time anyway— to be able to get rid of the obstacles, find solutions to problems that allowed them to do their frontline jobs, you know, whether or not they were frontline managers or frontline you know, professionals, actually hands on patients. 

And we're talking everywhere from radiation to social workers, to Nurses to, I mean, all over. The whole team was just outstanding, and we got to develop programs that were cutting edge and what have you. And that was the fun of the system, until you run into the bureaucracy. 

And this is where the sadness is, and the sadness is also when you start to realize that not all... you know, it's not that companies are bad, but people who lack value, values, principles, and they forget what's number one, and that the whole reason that we have a healthcare system is so that we can help people be as well as they possibly can be. That's what I thought. But not necessarily so. 

As I started realizing that the big dollar or certain leaders were in it for themselves, if you will. And there became a great disconnect between the values of compassion and human beings and kindness and those type of things versus the almighty dollar. I have to pretty much leave it there, because it's just a huge dissonance for me. 

And so I started getting very sad at what I saw and what I was contributing to, because just being in the system and the job that I was required to do just wasn't me, and it just wasn't Nursing. It wasn't when I started to do what I set out to do. And I guess I have to also say that in that particular situation, I had always been in a position that my word and my leadership and the people that I worked with was valued. 

And not that they always took my suggestions, but at least we had discussions, and I was a valued member of the team and pretty high up on the team at one point in time. And then all of a sudden, things started to change. I was in a system in which it was all about the CEO and we weren't even allowed to go... I could go to conferences, but I could not write abstracts and go talk. 

I couldn't speak, I couldn't do posters, I couldn't do any of those things about the wonderful programs that we had done. It all had to be about the corporation, or the CEO, top leadership team at at the top, and Nursing was not involved in that top leadership anymore, period. End of story. 

And I... it's a tragedy. I mean, it was just a complete tragedy. And luckily, that's all changed, but big corporation, I mean, that was my identity. And I come to looking back, I allowed my identity to morph into something that I was not, and I didn't even know who I was anymore at that time. 

So I knew that I had to leave, and that kind of brings us up to 15 years ago. But I knew I had to leave, but somehow I didn't have... I was afraid to. I don't know what I was afraid of. I guess I was afraid I didn't know what the next job was going to be. What could I do? 

I had been harassed, bullied, looking back now, one would consider it a bullying situation, and I'm pretty sure that I was trying to be run out of my job, but it became eliminated instead. So the universe took care of me eventually, because I couldn't take care of myself.

Nicole Vienneau  14:22

Thank you, universe. Yeah, yeah. I know that a lot of our listeners are relating to your story about the system and how it has shifted and continues to morph and twist and turn and part of us are not even a piece of the conversation anymore, And part of us are. And so, you know, we're seeing so many different variations of Nursing and healthcare in our world right now. 

And trying to make something work, and doing what we can and doing our job to the best of our ability, and still just not feeling right and not sitting well in our heart and just going against like your values and your core beliefs, and yet we're still hanging on by the skin of our teeth, hoping that things are going to change. 

And then the universe says, nope. And so tell us,  you know, what has happened? What happened at that time that that you're saying the universe said, no, we're going to take care of this ourselves, because you're not gonna do it, so we're gonna do it for you.

Annie Jones  15:47

Well, yeah, and I was very broken. There's no question. You know, the people around me, I had to go through my own grieving process, if you will, which I did, and it took a very long time. I was fortunate to be able to almost take the next year to explore where I wanted to go. I had the resources to be able to do that, even though I didn't think that I did. 

So at that point in time, there was an oncologist that wanted —it was at the time when I shouldn't say Obamacare. It was the Affordable Care Act really was starting, and we had an oncologist that was very forward thinking and wanted... it was at that time also that a lot of physician practices were becoming employed under systems. 

And there was a stubborn group that wanted to remain independent, and so this oncologist and I started up a business that was for independent physicians, which is still, I mean, we took it... I was a free employee for a little while, but I left that job a year ago, but that was my bread and butter. 

So there was a lot of things that happened. I negotiated contracts, you know, for ACOs, accountable care organizations. I started, I mean, literally, started the business from the ground up, and it went from nothing to a 10 million dollar which was, you know, pretty good for this little organization. 

But anyway, it's still in existence today, and that was kind of my... that wasn't my forever job. That was my learning, and also helped me to get through my PhD, because it was so flexible, and I got to work from home. So I'm one of those people that have been working from home since, you know, 2010 almost. 

So anyway, that was kind of a, I mean, that was a big part. But during that time, then I really found myself, if you will, I found, well, first of all, I found Barbie Dossey and Gretchen from Harmony Hill on a trip to China just by happenstance. I thought I was going with a bunch of oncology Nurses, and instead, I was going with a bunch of holistic Nurses from AHNA, and Barbie was our leader. 

And so over the course of the next few years, I went to renewal treat at Harmony Hill. Just took trips. Ran into places where Barbie was at, and we would connect here and there. So the the bottom line there was, is about three years after the universe kicked me out of the bad situation where I became broken, I was at a retreat at Harmony Hill in 2012, I believe it was September, it could have been October, but it was a Nursing retreat, and Barbie had said, she had said more than once, why aren't you getting your PhD? 

You've got the time to go get that thing started. So why don't you apply and go? And so that stuck, and she continued to send that message in different ways. But also then Gretchen showed me, these two women have showed me in completely different ways, a way to be that was different.

 And Harmony Hill is just such a sacred, you know, has been a sacred spot that I went back to over and over again. And anyway, September 2012, we were doing a medicine walk at this retreat, and I was off, and I can go straight to that spot down on the water where the wind spoke to me. 

There was a rock and a wind, and it spoke to me, and it said, why are you continuing to be broken in a broken system? Why are you trying to push yourself of doing old things? Change what you're doing and so change, change, change. And the message came through loud and clear that my focus is not on medical and, you know, illness, it's on healing and holism. 

Go explore this. So that led me to so many different programs, so many different exploring different avenues of what health and wellness was all about. And that's how I arrived in 2013. Two things during that year happened. I gave in and went with Gretchen to Iona, to Scotland, in the Isle of Iona, and with a group of us, 12 of us, went and had a life changing experience. And also then I started the INCA program. 

So I went to the coaching program in 2013 and graduated in 2014. And that kind of really launched where I was to go and why I am where I am right now.

Nicole Vienneau  21:06

Oh my gosh, there's so much to unpack in all that you just shared. So some highlights. First of all, for our listeners who don't know Barbara Dossey, okay, so, Barbara Dossey, I'm going to put a link to her website in our show notes. 

Barbara Dossey is the co founder of the Integrative Nurse Coach Foundation, and so she is the mama, the goat, the creator, co-creator of Nurse coaching, and is a powerful human being, so loving, so caring, so wise. You know, Annie, she sat across from me one day with a glass of wine and said, Nicole, why aren't you getting your PhD? 

I haven't followed that yet, so we'll see where that goes. But or and she sees in each person so much that we don't see in ourselves. And what a role model to listen to, to be with, to learn from. So listeners, if you don't know Barbara Dossey, please jump on her website. Just check out some of her publications. 

She's published many, many books from critical care, where she started creating one of the first critical care textbooks ever for Nurses, and then, just now, advancing holistic Nursing to far beyond what we could have ever envisioned. 

And then Gretchen Schodde. So Gretchen, she is from Union, Washington, and is the creator of Harmony Hill, and it is a beacon of light for many generations that have come there for healing, cancer retreats. Just check that out too. I'll put a link to the show notes. 

She is Emeritus, right? The founder Emeritus. Two amazing women that you got to go to China with, and you got to go to Ireland with. I just like... my body was like jittering over here as I was listening to the experiences that you've had. And yet, that time when you were on the medicine walk and you received a message, another message from the universe.

Annie Jones  23:30

Yes, yes, it was, yeah. I mean, I'm pretty left brain, and so it was quite an experience for me, first of all, to be amongst all of these holistic Nurses on my way to China. I mean, it was like, shake my world up, baby. But yeah, it does come. I mean, I don't know how to explain it. 

There's been, you know, several messages that have come. And it's not a scary thing, you know, some people... it's a spiritual thing. It's an inner wisdom type thing. And you just know, you just know, there we are, right? Nurses sometimes just know. And it's that intuition, and that was that intuition that was speaking to me, and has spoken to me over the course of time. 

And this may be a little bit out of sync, but I've got to, you know, my last 10 years worth of journey and where I'm heading into the future. But one of the things, it took me 10 years to get my PhD. You know, that's kind of embarrassing, but I'm okay with it, because it unraveled... and my life, you know, a PhD isn't just your life. 

I mean, you have all the aspects of your life that are going to happen as you're working, so it in its own right, is kind of a... it's a rite of passage, but it's also a journey. And I'm not done. I mean, you come to learn that you..., it's very important to me that we're not... there's no destination. 

For so long, you know, the ultimate destination is that you die and then whatever happens. But that's... I don't believe it that way. I believe very much that this is just one chapter of my path, and I will be moving on to the next plane at some point, you know, at some point in time, because this goes on. 

So not a destination. I will never end up at a destination. It's all about the journey. And I just see an endless walk on my journey. That's a whole... that's just my own personal belief and what have you. 

But everything that has come for me and been for me, and what the universe has given to me, if you will, and continues to give to me are, you know, messages of where I need to go, and the signs line up and if I choose to walk it, it doesn't matter. It comes around anyway, because I'm not in control. Most of us know that we're never in complete control. So, anyway.

Nicole Vienneau  26:26

Yes. Well, and that brings me to where you are today with your journey. You know, having completed the Nurse coaching program in 2014, completed... now completed just recently, which we should all congratulate, your PhD. And, you know, back in the, you know, years ago, you had created another business called Health Forward and doing some consulting work and doing that kind of thing. 

And today that same company is now... has now shifted and morphed into, you know, gathering up all of the experiences that you've had over the past 10, 12, years, 15 years, and then before that, right? But gathering up those things to now morph into what you're doing today. So tell us a little bit about your dreams, your vision for Health Forward now.

Annie Jones  27:25

I will do that. I am very excited. So over the course of the last 10 years, under that particular name, Health Forward, literally consulting and leadership, operational, this, that and yonder, and program development, which was old stuff. 

And as I started, as Nicole pointed out, where I'm going into the future, I have been studying— besides my PhD— I have been taking clinical meditation and imagery classes from Bonney and Richard and you know. So that's another, you know, program, and my study group, I continue to study with them on Tuesday nights. And so...

Nicole Vienneau  28:08

May I just interrupt and just put a plug in here for Bonney & Richard Schaub, transpersonal Nursing, transpersonal coaching, and I'll put a link into the show notes for their course as well.

Annie Jones  28:21

Oh, perfect, perfect. So, studying with them and taking functional medicine course, working on, you know, taking the second round of nutritional courses back in— Nicole, you and I met, actually, in 2014, when we took with Monica... Monica? Monique. 

And we took the IMF course. That was the beginning nutritional. So anyway, over the course of the last 10 years, I've been taking functional medicine course, taking the, you know, the IFM course with, you know, back in 2014 that first one that we went together...

Nicole Vienneau  28:59

Oh, yeah, we went to that one together.

Annie Jones  29:02

Yeah, that's where I met you. Yes. And I've been taking legacy building classes, and I'm a almost certified in healing touch. So it's all these little things that I have been studying, working through, experiencing that type of thing. So what I am doing now is going to completely... I thought I was going to start a whole other business, but I thought why? Health Forward was a good title for me. 

So I'm just going to go through the whole rebranding process and changing a leadership slash operational company consulting business into something that is much more private practice, exactly. And I'm going to pull these skills together that I have been learning to offer to cancer survivors and their care partners, or also known as caregivers. 

There is a huge need out there of well, shall I say, I have been studying for the last 10 years care... I call them care partners. That is a better word. There is not good language for care partners of cancer survivors and patients out there, because the whole focus has been on cancer survivors. 

And we have these people, we have care partners in the shadows that have... we're not acknowledging, and they're not acknowledging their own needs and their own trauma that they go through during a cancer experience. And that is not to downplay in any way, shape or form, the cancer survivor and cancer patients, which I work with also, but there is a group of people that we need to strengthen, so that the outcomes for cancer survivors and patients are as good as they can be. 

Because there's research that's out there that basically says how well their care partners are doing can predict how well cancer survivors will do. So that's a whole, you know, that's a whole other podcast. But nonetheless, it's because of that motivation that I am putting together Health Forward for the purposes of helping those individuals. 

I also happen to be, in the meantime, I also am working for a group called Wings of Hope Cancer Support Center in my local area, and it's kind of my dream job. I wish it was bigger. I wish that we had... we reached a greater audience, but I am going to, over the course of the next few months, put together a curriculum. 

I don't know if curriculum is the right word, but program roll out for the next three years, because we are going to bring awareness to the cancer care partners, and to develop a programmatic approach, strategic plan, if you will, for that group of people. So I'm very excited about that. 

Very excited because the support that this organization, Wings of Hope, brings is to not only the cancer survivor. We have a very solid program for cancer survivors and patients. So the care partners have always been a tag along, but we're going to have programs for them. 

And then also we have programs for professional caregivers too. But there's going to be a... we have another individual, I'll be on that team, but we have another individual that will be spearheading that. So we're kind of going through all this transformation. My company's going through transformation. 

Wings of Hope is going through transformation. And I'm just really excited. This is what I was, as a lot of people cliche say, born to do, I finally have arrived at in the point of my journey that I'm having so much fun and I'm very excited.

Nicole Vienneau  33:13

Yes, I'm excited with you. Our listeners are cheering you on. And you know this whole reminder, I think, that we are on a journey, a voyage. There's no destination. We're going to get somewhere, but it doesn't mean that that's the end, right? And I think of a trip, right? We're on a trip. 

We're going to some destination, and then we begin a whole other chapter of discovery, of unraveling, of, you know, opening doors we've never been through, and eating foods we've never even come across in our life. I mean, just opening up another place to learn, to grow, to uncover and polish and whatever we want to do when we get there, right? 

And I just love this, this whole, this whole journey that you've been on, and the learning stops that you've made along the way. And now you're at this point where you're, you know, you've gathered up all of your goodies along the way, and now showing up and having fun and enjoying what you're doing and you know, and being curious about the next learnings that are going to come for you, because the universe is going to show them to you anyways. 

Yes, so you know, in our last few moments, I love to ask the question, what is on your heart that you would love to share with our listeners today?

Annie Jones  34:52

I think what is on my heart are several different things. One. And I've kind of already talked about it, you know, as soon as I accepted the fact that I was on a journey and not supposed to be someplace at a particular time because I was supposed to be, then my life really opened up. The possibilities opened up. And I think that's the moment that I... one of the words that I like to describe myself as is a possibilititarian.

Nicole Vienneau  35:30

I love that! Possibilitarian. 

Annie Jones  35:32

Yeah. Can't quite say it right, but anyway, thank you. I think that's number one, is being able to be open and consider yourself open enough to be a possibilitarian Yeah. So that means I'm never going to reach the destination. I'm on a journey. The second thing is, is that Nursing has... I have never regretted one moment at choosing Nursing as my profession. 

You know, and again, the universe lined all that up, but it has given me so many different opportunities for learning and for being. And so I thank the universe and have much gratitude for being able to be in that space. And the third thing is, I think what's on my heart is that community is so important. 

And it's our own responsibility for ourselves, but also to completely remember that when we see another member of our community— so in other words, our Nursing group, our Nurse coaches in particular— is that we're a sister and brotherhood, and we have to reach out to keep ourselves together in a world that is designed, at the moment, to tear us from all ends. 

And we have to remember where our inner core is, and our inner wisdom, and to always be true to that little— as Barbie would say— that little light that shines right down there in the middle of our gut somewhere. That's the one piece that we always have to grab on to, and we have to help others grab on to. And I don't know where that all came from, but you asked me what was on my heart, and that's what... that was where I'm at.

Nicole Vienneau  37:35

Sounds like you went inwards to those little places, yes, and out wisdom came. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Yes. So, how can we find you?

Annie Jones  37:52

Well, you know, I'm in the beginning of putting up my website, and I think I can tell you this, you're not going to be able to go immediately, but within the next few months, I am going to be at www.healthforwardllc.com. So I will be there eventually. And also I'm in LinkedIn and on Facebook, and I guess I can, you know, I am on Instagram, but I'm an old fuddy duddy, I'm not on Instagram a whole lot at this point in time.

Nicole Vienneau  38:28

Well, we will share the links in the show notes so people can find you, and if... you know, reach out. Like you say, community is so important. And sometimes people feel that they can't reach out for some reason. I'm not sure what that is, but please reach out. Reach out to Annie. Reach out to me. I'll reach back. And you know, let's stay together and in community, because we grow stronger that way.

Annie Jones  38:52

Absolutely, absolutely. 

Nicole Vienneau  38:55

Yeah, so thank you so much, Annie, for spending time with us today and for sharing just a snippet of your amazing story, so many nuggets of wisdom that we can pull from and connect with and you know, help elevate each of us as we are onwards on our journey. So, thank you.

Annie Jones  39:14

Thank you, Nicole, for having me.